Jon Cappetta 0:00
On one hand, like we talked about, like cannabis content, and everyone thinks about cannabis content as like, like the Cheech and Chong buddy flicks and stuff like that. Cannabis has been involved in all greater, not just the ones that were like, Oh, look, we got a Bag of Weed. We got to stop thinking that like, just because cannabis is a plot point, that it’s like, it’s cannabis content. Like I argue all the time that like black mirror is kind of as content. Interstellar is cannabis content. They talk about being inside in between dimensions in that shit. Like, come on, if I’m stoned. And we’re talking about dimensions and like what could be out there and like whatever like you got me that’s like, that’s, that’s part of whatever so like, all of these things are, like, ingrained in this thing. So like one I don’t see cannabis as like, this unique new snowflake. These things have always been integrated and everything. It’s just becoming easier and more legal to segment that way.

Announcer 1:05
You’re listening to two B one B podcast for cannabis marketers, where your host Shayda Torabi and her guests are trailblazing the path to marketing, educating and professionalizing cannabis light one up and listen up. Here’s your host

Shayda Torabi 1:22
Shayda Torabi. Hello, and welcome back to another new episode of The To be blunt podcast. I’m your host Shayda Torabi, and I’m really excited to kick this episode off with highlighting a little bit of what is going on in Texas right now. We are currently in the middle of our legislative session in Texas. we vote on new laws every two years. And so in terms of cannabis law, and cannabis reformation and just where it sits in our current legal program is really something that even I who find myself super involved have a lot of questions about. And so I would like to direct you to my last episode with Jax Finkel, she’s with Texas normal and the foundation for informed Texas, to really great organizations that help to educate and inform you if that is something that is of interest to you. And also wanted to highlight an episode I did with Alyssa Nolan of the Texas hemp coalition. She operates a nonprofit that is also designed to help educate kind of at that legal political state level. And so I’m just really grateful to have had these two great women who are doing a lot of work here in Texas, on the podcast to help educate y’all help educate me. And so if that’s something that you’re curious about, I do encourage you whether you’re in Texas or not to pay attention to those kinds of conversations, because I’m a big believer, if you’ve been listening to this podcast, you know, I’m based in Texas, but my guests are from all over. Because I think it’s really important for us to be paying attention to what’s happening in other states. So if you don’t know what’s going on in Texas, and you’re kind of curious, now your ears perked up, I really hope you’ll go tune into those episodes. But with that said, today’s episode, which is why we’re all here is featuring really cool cannabis publication they’ve they’ve been around for a long time, you probably can guess who I’m going to be referencing. But I’m really pleased to share that I have the VP of content, john capita of high times on the show today. And he was just such a fun guest, he shared so much knowledge and I’ll kind of you know, mentioned this to pay attention he, he comes from a very kind of traditional marketing background. And it resonated with me because I do have a degree in marketing. And so I think that there’s, you know, a lot to be said about traditional marketing, especially in cannabis where there is so much red tape, and you have to kind of navigate around things. I think new marketing like social media, digital, things like that sometimes can be overwhelming. And of course, High Times is originally a print publication, they now span so many other sectors of the industry, they’re online, they create content, they have a TV channel, they now operate a few other publications under the High Times brand. And we talk about all of that. And John’s role is really you know, prime for kind of, you know, where his High Times going really like what’s the direction and it was just fun for me to learn about what they’re up to and what his perspective is and what he sees and what he thinks especially representing a California cannabis brand. You know, those brands really take branding seriously. So I’m not going to give away too much more of the episode. I want you guys to listen to the end, he shares a lot of knowledge. So without further ado, let’s welcome john to the show.

Jon Cappetta 4:46
My name is john cappetta. I am the VP of content in High Times. I’ve been in this role for over three years now. I was around the brand a few years before since the acquisition happened a number of years back at that time, I was working at An agency that was kind of helping everyone from data companies to products, kind of just communicate who they were to the marketplace. You know, I’ve always had an interest in tech and content. And like, you know, it’s funny not, I don’t even remember maybe the last time I was home, but I had a conversation with my mom not too long ago, where I brought up the fact that like, I, she definitely told me when I was a kid that I would never make money from spending all of my time on the computer and smoking weed and the things that I was interested in. Now, all of my money comes from like, basically being on a computer and smoking weed, and, you know, being interested in this weird shit, but like, you know, other people aren’t necessarily as interested in

so I’ve always been kind of like a fake it till you make it type person, like I just, you know, if there was something I was interested in, it was kind of like, How can I be adjacent or involved in it so that I can learn as much as possible and then contribute. So when I was very young, I learned very quickly that I wasn’t I was super into music, but I didn’t wasn’t really musically talented. I played bass for a number of years. And I still don’t think I can keep trying very well. But you know, which is like, also important for a basis. So, you know, it just certain things just aren’t for you, right. But I was always super creative. And I was always, like, interested in in, like, breaking things apart and figuring out like, how they worked, right. And so, from a very young age, I was like, literally, like, my friends were always in bands, and I was in bands, but like, they were always better than my bench. So like, there, I was really like helping their bands, get shows, and like, pretend that they were like, a little bit more legit than they were so that like, people took them a little bit more seriously. Like, if you have a manager, people immediately assume your real act as opposed to like your basis, your guitar is fucking responding. So like, from like, the time I was, like, 1314 years old, like making fake record labels. I wasn’t a poor kid or anything like that, like my parents, like, I never needed anything, but like the things that like I wanted, like, I wanted to go to concerts and stuff like that, like, either need to, like get a job or figure out how to do it, you know what I mean? Like, I didn’t have buying everything. So I pretty young realized, like, I could do marketing for record labels, and like, help them like reach the local community. And then they would give me free shit. You know what I mean? So like, I would go to concerts that I didn’t have access to. And like, when I was like, 15 years old, I threw a series of like, again, he’s just like, kind of faking it till you make it like failing upwards. I had, like, ended up getting connected with a bunch of like, pretty successful and like, I was young at this time, but like, pretty successful musicians who like I just been around enough and like, they didn’t really know how old I was like, so like, I don’t think you know, if they knew they’re hanging out, like 15 year old kid probably would have been weird, but like, you know, different sorry. Yeah. Yeah, seem like a little bit older. But so like, I was always like a rounded shows. And like, I was, this would work for was still a thing. And like, my first ever worked, or I had a one of my best friends growing up. His dad was like, something of a figurehead in the music industry. And so he like, was super lavish. Right, like, he took us literally in a limo. Like, it was like, so stupid, not what work towards about by any means. But like, you know, we were kids, he wanted to see us have fun, you know, whatever, we’d never done anything like this before. The very next year, I had gotten all access passes, like for me and all my friends like and like I was on stage watching taking back Sunday. And with like, I don’t even want to say his name because I don’t want to make things weird, but like, a very notable person in the scene who I idolized. And he was like, let’s go watch taking back Sunday on stay and like, I was just like, it was one of those like, how did I get here? This is what could happen. You know what I mean? Like this is like if I just keep running things, you know, whatever. So I’ve always kind of like had that mentality and then with cannabis, I always loved the plant and again, I like didn’t have money so from a very young age, it was kind of like okay, I’ll pick up more than I need sell it to some other people and then like I’ll get my stuff for like at least cheaper because like honestly, I was never doing it well enough but like I ever got my shit totally for free. Always like oh you know like the never get high on your own supply like all those like drug dealer like things you’re not supposed to do. I did all of those. I was terrible at Yeah, but I was like, I was able to like, you know, manage my habit. Right. And so like, from the time that I was, I was getting into college I started I went to SUNY New Paltz, and which is a small state school in upstate New York. And there’s like the same kind of thing happening at the local venue every week. So me and my friends were just like, fuck it, like let’s go to the venue and see if they’ll give us a night to like, fuck around and like so they did. And that spiraled into, it was a two story venue upstairs had live music downstairs more like a club. We ended up doing the upstairs and downstairs on Tuesdays and Thursdays, like, from my sophomore year through the rest of the time I was in college, and like, you know, so things just started kind of like snowballing and actually turning into money as opposed to just I’m getting off doing this stuff for free. It was like Okay, now there’s cash in my pocket. That all escalate. I worked for Red Bull while I was in college. And that was really cool because I was a college student brand manager. So like I was exposed to a lot of like really high level marketing classes pretty young from like my freshman year, and then also put in a lot of cool rooms. So when dubstep was kicking off, like nobody at Red Bull really knew what dubstep was. So like when dubstep people started approaching them, they were like, go talk to john like he probably knows the shits about and I laid that up into doing the first show for this artist borador, who ended up like being supermassive. But he’s This is rarely our DJ never played in New York before we brought him out for the first time. We got We almost got screwed every step of the way. I was out for so much money that I totally did not have if this shit like hit the fan and didn’t go right. But by the grace of God, like literally, it was a Wednesday night in December. Okay, like no one goes shows on Wednesday nights to begin with December’s cold as fuck, it was a blizzard. This was a 650 person venue, we literally ended up like they literally had two security guards because they didn’t expect anybody to show up. And it was like, mostly walk up. I think we sold like 100 tickets like in advance. And then 850 people showed up buying tickets at the door. So like, more money than I’ve ever seen in my life. All of a sudden, I was like, okay, like, I’m just gonna, you know, I’ve always kind of been interested in like, like, curating, or like making people feel things. You know what I mean? Like, I’ve really like three anshul. Yeah, I really like events. Because, like, yes, you can do and it only lives for a second. But like, if you could communicate a feeling people can hold on to that forever, you know what I mean? And so like, that’s kind of, that’s kind of what I realized, like we can do with the badness, right? And so like, while I was in New York, up until I think, like 2014, I was doing shows, after graduate school, I was in Manhattan, everywhere from Webster Hall to like, you know, Music Hall of Williamsburg. And, you know, that was going really good for a while, and then an opportunity came up that brought me out to LA. And, you know, the music industry is great. Like, don’t get me wrong. I’m not trying to talk shit on it by any means, but like,

it’s a little bit flakier than some other industries. Your checks don’t always show up. People are alerted. Yeah, there’s a lot of shysters. You know, and it’s all good. You know, like, everyone’s got their thing. And it all comes out in the wash show. You know, like, I believe in karma. I think if you fuck people over, like, eventually, it’ll come back to you. So you don’t know, like bad feelings about the music industry or anything like that. But when I got to LA, there just started being a lot more tech opportunities. And so I was there for a while until High Times came. And again, like, I’m part of the reason I moved to California was because of the legal cannabis. Because like I was, you know, I was sick of living in the shadows. And like, you know, I could get everything I wanted in New York, but like, you couldn’t like be out there like that, you know what I mean? So like,

Shayda Torabi 12:54
right, I have access to the different types of products that are available in legal

Jon Cappetta 12:58
states. Exactly. And so like, that’s part of what got me to California in the first place was like, this is, you know, that’s why the opportunity made so much sense, you know, and then, when High Times came up, it was just one of those things. I was like, Listen, like, when I was in college, like, we didn’t have playboy centerfolds on our walls, like even in the frat houses, right? Like, it was like they were they were high time. So it was like, we were a stoner school, you know? So, being able to work with like, like, this magazine is significantly older than I am. You know what I mean? There are people that still work at the company that are older than I’ve been, I’ve been around with the magazine longer than I’ve been alive. Oh, wow. Max, who’s our art directors? Like he’s one of my favorite people in the world because like he’s got this like, punk mentality. That’s just like, how he grew up that like he never let go of part of what makes High Times great. I think part of what like really attracts people to brands and like, like, even like red boat, right? Is that kind of like carefree? It’s

Shayda Torabi 13:50
effortless? It’s just a it’s the personality of it.

Jon Cappetta 13:53
Exactly. And so like, that kind of thing is always interesting. And like this guy, like embodies that right and like, that’s just what the magazine has always been to me, right like irreverent. Like, we’re just like, we believe in what we believe in. And like, we follow the rules we believe in, you know what I mean? Like, if we don’t like if this is bullshit, like, if something should be legal, we’re gonna talk about it and we’re going to do it because like, Fuck the feds mean like on one hand, but on the other hand, it’s also like, like, Listen, so cannabis is also Yes, I love the plant. But like once you dig in and you start thinking about all the things that are involved in this like, on one hand, and this is like these are two different like diatribes are going to try and be very brief with but like on one hand, like we talked about, like cannabis content, and everyone thinks about cannabis content as like, like the Cheech and Chong buddy flicks and stuff like that. Cannabis has been involved in all greater, not just the ones that were like, Oh, look, we got a Bag of Weed. We got to stop thinking that like just because cannabis is a plot point. That it’s like it’s cannabis content. Like I argue all the time that like black mirror is cannabis content. Interstellar is cannabis content. They talk about being inside In between dimensions in that shit, like, come on, if I’m stoned, and we’re talking about dimensions, and like what could be out there and like, whatever, like you got me that’s like, that’s it’s part of whatever it’s like, all of these things are like ingrained in this thing. So like one, I don’t see cannabis as like this unique new snowflake. These things have always been integrated and everything, it’s just becoming easier and more legal to segment that way. And then the other side of the coin is like cannabis is an identity crisis, right? Like, nobody got into the game because they wanted to be legal because they wanted to pay taxes because they wanted to like lobby. But when you dig into all of the things that has been hurt by this plant, like, I believe in plant medicine, freedom, because I don’t think that the government should say should be able to lock people up based on them all through your body cam, you know what I mean? I know things get violent, but ever there, obviously, there’s plenty of my new shirt that gives them just cause the lock people up doing drugs, kit possession should not be one of them. Now, when we think about the way that those drug laws have been used to harm, like, specifically communities of color in their city communities, like like, already at risk communities, that was used as a tool of oppression, we need to stop that. Like there’s so many and like I call it like a scissor point. This is something I don’t even know if this is like commonly accepted verbiage. But like, I read a thing and think it was like the New York Times about it, like fuckin a couple years ago, when stuff was going on with Trump and like how some of these points like, they’re just so like, when you see an image or you think of something like you have so many beliefs that are ingrained in your positioning, that people who don’t see it the same way as you. It’s almost offensive, because like, there are so many reasons why you believe this thing, right? Like, people who disliked Trump and not that, like, you know, he’s out of office, we don’t have to, like really talk about it anymore. But like, there was a lot of reasons that people dislike Trump, it wasn’t just Oh, they thought he was a shitty president. Like he said tons of offensive things. He was a womanizer, he seemed he said things that even if you don’t want to say he’s racist, he didn’t condemn racism, there are a lot of like, so if you were stuck, we’re staunchly opposed to him. If people didn’t see that same mentality, it was almost like you were staunchly opposed to them, and their bones. So that’s kind of like what a scissor point is. And I try and be,

Unknown Speaker 17:30

Jon Cappetta 17:34
laxa days or not, I don’t say laxa days, if that’s not the right word, but like, a little bit carefree with other people’s feelings about things, right? Like, if it doesn’t affect me, right. But like, if you don’t believe fundamentally, that this plant should be accessible, not necessarily from the reason of, hey, people want to just consume it, but for medicine, or just so that it stops harming the communities that like the war on drugs has harmed. I don’t know that I understand why, like how you could feel that way. You know what I mean? And like, that’s, that’s one of those things that like, as I get further into, you know, working with high times, and in the industry, there are just so many things that are so many reasons why things should be headed this direction, that when people are still opposed to it, it’s like, well, you must be gaining. From this, you must sit, you must support private prisons, if you want, you know, all of these people to be locked up, you must support institutional racism, if you want stop and frisk to continue to exist, you know what I mean? Like they’re like, so it becomes one of these things where it’s to me, it seems so apparent and clear why these laws need to change why this plant should be free, that like, anything I can do to make that light brighter, or to you know, break down that the argument or conversation a little bit into piecemeal so that people could understand it at a different level, or make metaphors so that we can, you know, look at it from a different perspective without having to feel so engrained into whatever positions we’re already stuck in. You know what I mean? Like if someone said, tomorrow, hey, we’re gonna legalize corn, you know what I mean? And like everyone who’s selling corn, or putting high fructose corn syrup and shit, we’re gonna put them in jail. Like, I bet you have a lot of problems with that. But that’s because like, you’re ingrained in thinking like, this is a way that you make money, whatever. So it’s also like when we talk about legalization, we’re not talking and this is something that I got from Ed Rosenthal, who’s been writing items forever, but we’re not talking about legalization, like legalizing tomatoes. You know what I mean? Like, this is gonna be a control, like tobacco. At best, we’re gonna have a lesser controlled substance, you know what I mean? But we’re not ever going to have the total freedom of this plant that she deserves to say we’re probably not gonna have much like freedom of mushrooms for a long time. Even though we see all of the ways that it can help us because there are so many things. Put Against like, like Big Pharma as a perfect example, right? Big Pharma doesn’t want to cure you of your depression. They want to keep you on fucking medication so that you’re paying them every month, you know what I mean? So why would they want you to know about mushrooms and plant medicine that could actually rewire your system and get you to a place where like, you can find happiness naturally, you can, like, you don’t need to worry about add because like you’re like, you can find your attention as you actually need it. You know what I mean?

Shayda Torabi 20:24
You are hitting all the notes I like will interject and say one, I feel like you and I have very similar upbringings, in the sense of just being super scrappy, especially in the music industry. Austin is the quote unquote, live music capital of the world. And I started I’m a content creator myself in a much different scale than you but became passionate about it because I was in live music. I figured if you had a frickin website and a business card, you could go really far. And I used to interview bands and I didn’t really do anything with the content regrettably at that time, but it definitely helped open my door in my eyes to opportunities of all you got to do is just kind of put some content together, look a little professional show up and ask the right fucking questions and pretty surprised

Jon Cappetta 21:09
Have you heard of live for live music?

Unknown Speaker 21:10
I haven’t.

Jon Cappetta 21:11
Okay, so these guys so this is was started by one of my best friends kid couldn’t shot we went to high school together, known him for, you know, decades this point. And I don’t mean this offensively. I love everything they’ve done, but I want to like, he literally like that, like music enterprise music media enterprise started because he wanted to follow fish on tour, you know what I mean? It was like a tour blog. And they just kept pushing and kept getting in rooms and kept like being on the scene. And he like, he manages acts now. Like he’s like, created a insanely impressive career out of like, being around and knowing what’s going on, you know what I mean? Like, it’s a, it’s a perfect example of like, I don’t wanna say fake it till you make it because like, he like, he was really doing it from, you know,

Shayda Torabi 21:56
please, learning and educating himself. But I see, it’s like, if you just keep showing up, and you keep being a familiar face, and you just keep asking questions, somebody is bound to say, yes, it’s interesting, kind of on that thread. I, for some reason, was driving and thought this particular thought, cannabis as an industry, despite all the buzz and acclaim that obviously it’s getting, especially in mainstream media is, is a relatively small industry. I’m finding pockets of by especially by having this podcast connect with people in Colorado, you’re realizing the Colorado people obviously all know each other, you’re connecting with people in California are realizing all the California people know each other. And then I’m starting to draw some, you know, dots around, oh, these people in California know, these people in the Pacific Northwest. And there’s definitely players that are popping up, though that it’s just very, I say it to say, yeah, it can be daunting and overwhelming to try to figure out where’s my place in this whole conversation. But I think that there are ways to push through that content, chaotic, of just showing up in and just paying attention to kind of who’s communicating and just joining in the conversation. Really, that’s the big thing. So

Jon Cappetta 23:09
that’s one of the things that we talked about on clubhouse all the time is all these people

Shayda Torabi 23:13
are huge on clubhouse.

Jon Cappetta 23:15
Well, so honestly, one of the things about clubhouse, I think and the reason why it’s working for me is because I don’t like to keep the conversation on me. I like to, you know, pass the buck. And I think that like, there’s a need on there right now for good curation. Because there’s a lot of people who are just kind of, we’re saying they do a lot. And don’t. I personally like if I didn’t know of what you were doing before I see you on clubhouse, I’m immediately suspect until I can prove that you’re actually doing what you’re saying. So there’s that. But it’s also like, there’s a lot of people who are just like, who are hungry, who see the space who want to get involved, right. But like, again, like I said, with live music, like you got to be there. It’s not as much to just say, Oh, I’m interested in this, oh, I’m going to watch these shows. Like, how can you make yourself helpful to these people because like, everyone, we are a small industry, everyone needs help no matter from if they’re a media company or a grower, right. And like these growers, like especially the best ones, they want to share their knowledge. A lot of this stuff was their blood, sweat and tears that like that taught them this shit, you know. And so if they got someone who’s actually interested, they want them to like understand how to get the best out of this plant because like, tap on your thing, it is very secular, especially in this industry, because like the people that have been around for a long time, the people that have been going to the events that have been part of the community, again, that have been around but have been on the scene. They want, they support each other, they lock arms tightly, because there’s this whole new school of like big money that’s coming in with legalization that doesn’t give a fuck about the plan. They’re just trying to hit scale. They think oh, this money this plant is going to bring US dollar signs. They don’t give a fuck about growing craft cannabis or whatever. They just want to have, you know, things to sell to investors, and like the That’s okay. Walmart will exist in cannabis. Like that’s the thing most people don’t realize is like, it’s easy to make a sale it’s hard to maintain a customer in an industry that’s so authenticity based around a plant that’s so hard to cultivate, right? Like it’s not hard to grow weed at a at the base level you can put in Texas right now throw some seeds in the ground, they will grow it’s not gonna be something you’re super stoked on growing if you don’t care about it or smoking if you don’t care about it, but it’s a weed this shit like That’s why they call it that the chute will just fucking grow there are people like they’re all these old heads who like used to grow go around they probably still doing it with like plant seeds at like national monuments and stuff like that just they want to fucking weed plants rove and like Johnny Appleseed, and he fucking loves that like plant them everywhere. There’s this brand half lit that makes these lollipops that like inside the lollipop stick there are seeds so when you’re done with it like you put in you just plant the stick and like a little plants will grow out of it. Love that shit. Let’s beautify the planet. You know what I mean? All about those things. But like we also have to recognize that like to do it well, to get the kind of shit that commands the height like people look at cookies and they see Oh my god, those guys are showing so much money and merchandise. Like I don’t know if they think it’s because they think they have a cool logo. Or just because kids want to wear it because Berner says it, but like what makes cookies special. Their top of the pyramid is this fucking small amount of really, really dope weed and Say what you will about their expansion in other states. In California where they’re based, the folklore is built around this indoor weed. That is amazing. Then they have a shitload because they can’t meet this demand with that supply of the indoor there grow a ton of outdoor that’s like the second level level of the pyramid. But all the kids that can’t access that second level of the pyramid that are trying to get the cloud from that top of the pyramid. They’re buying the merchandise in Texas in New York in Miami in fuckin zoomies because that’s the like that that’s their fucking distribution. And those kids are buying the merch not because they like the logo. Now because Berner told them to because they want their friends to think they’re smoking this Piff and like, if we’re honest with ourselves, that Piff that like the those beautiful nugs that like is not easy to do. It’s not easy to create that folklore around so if like you like some of the states where cookies is picking up if they’re not coming correct with the flour, this the stores not doing that well. And like everyone’s like, Oh, well why it’s cookies. It’s because we have not achieved the kind of consistency in our industry we probably never will that will make us like tobacco or alcohol. A bottle of vodka is not always our our bottle of vodka is not always going to be the same flavor. It’s not always going to be the same strain. And because of that people are are are malleable. You know what I mean? they’ll move to the brand they’ll move to the strain they’ll move to what they think is the hot thing right now. We see it now like all the time the hype ship kills it out here people love people spend crazy money for silly amounts of week $250 for like a fucking a quarter of something that’s like super fired now limited

Shayda Torabi 28:08
edition some brand partnerships collaboration, but so I observed that about California but for better or worse other markets. I don’t know if it’s because the market hasn’t existed it is just time we’ll bring it

Jon Cappetta 28:21
well that’s what it is. It’s because California has had so long to navel gaze on this plan that the people that are really into it. Know what they like they know what they dislike, like, like you will have brands like originals who only care about growing oh geez because in their head, they’re not even in their head. It’s I believe this but just like in branded words who’s the founder? He believes that once you get like once your palate refines, this is where you’re gonna end up. Oh G has the flavor profile for the cannabis connoisseur. And they bet their whole business on it and it’s working.

Shayda Torabi 28:59
quick break to say thank you to restart CBD for sponsoring this podcast. Restart CBD is a brand my sisters and I founded in our hometown in Austin, Texas. We operate a retail location as well as an e commerce store and you can browse our wide range of CBD products at restart CBD calm. Again, thank you to restart for allowing me the time and resources to put on to be blunt. I hope you’ll check them out for your CBD needs. Let’s go back to the episode. There are definitely a lot more legacy brands in California because I do think that you have the consumer who is to your point I love that navel gazing of just look, I’ve been doing this for so long. I just wanted the way I want it. And I want to know that it’s good, but kind of in that same vein. I think it’s a little laughable. I mean, obviously businesses like leafly and high time just through content, every trend, disrupt the conversation, but you know, I’ll get asked what’s your favorite strain and I think it’s such a laughable question. Because the variation of state to save Farmer to Farmer indoor versus outdoor cannot produce the consistency of these genetics and so it’s a little fascinating to observe how states like California are kind of ignoring that what’s your kind of necessarily like, Oh gee go to flavor and trying to push more of the branded

Jon Cappetta 30:21
hype will so the branded hype is more built around like the farmers and the cultivator. So the reason why connected and alien labs are so huge is because if you open something in an alien labs jar, like that shit is gonna impress you every single time. No matter what it is. So like, that’s kind of like the the reason again, cookies developed this, you know, this prestige and Shubin, skis and alien labs and all these guys, the reason why people are buying their merch is because the flower is so dope. But if you take an O g is a very specific physical plant, but even gelatos, right? Like if you take a gelato and you grow that same plant, or take those same genetics and run it through each different cultivator, you’re gonna get different results. Yeah, so at the end, it’s less about what cultivars you like the best and more about what growers and

Shayda Torabi 31:12
what is their technique? Where do they

Jon Cappetta 31:14
rob from with that, though, is the race to scale. It’s not just one grower at a brand. And most brands don’t even have their own grower. They’re just going out and like wightlink stuff. So like, there’s tons of endless the brands that like I really love and like will always support like a brand like fig farms. For example, I know the farmer, I know, Keith or his wife are going to look at every flower, I know that they’re in there saying to those butts, I know they’re like, their process is being followed for everything that they put their name on. Other brands are not like that. But other brands don’t care to be like that, right? If you look at brands like a brand, I don’t, I’m not trying to talk shit and say that these guys don’t care. But if you look at a brand like kaliba, they’re vertically integrated. They care about scale, they care about getting as many consumers into their ecosystem. So Jay Z deal makes a lot more sense to a brand like them because like, you know, you look at like Jay Z’s champagne, like asis states, that’s not for champagne kind of source, that’s for people who can afford the status symbol. what they’re gonna do with Khalifa or monogram is create that database of these are the people who will spend a G every time they want to buy weed and buy it just because it’s in Jay Z’s packaging or whatever. And they just have to keep hitting that same Well, they don’t have to work for everybody, right? They just have to find their niche and sell to it. The same way. A lot of the people who are like looking at like trying to capture the housewife, or like, you know, like the new the elder consumer. Like, I appreciate that. And I think that we should, in an effort to make our shit approachable, we should all be trying to reach more people than just who we’re reaching today. But I also think that like not, we need to cater to the daily driver that’s going to keep us in business, and then figure out how we turn the housewife onto it. Because the same way that like, you know, the term pink washing? No,

Unknown Speaker 33:11
I’m not familiar with that.

Jon Cappetta 33:12
Okay, so pink washing is an old industry term. And like, obviously, things have changed now with Coleman, but like back in the day, when like, traditionally male focused brands weren’t trying to sell things to women, like if you had a power drill, you’d pay it pay sure God. And so that was a very expensive lesson that all these guys learned did not fucking work. If a woman needed a power drill, she’ll buy the alone, she doesn’t need to be paying, and she’s certainly not going to pay more for it to be pink. You know what I mean? cannabis hasn’t learned a lot of those lessons, because they’re because a lot of these guys don’t have MBAs. And I say that with love, you know what I mean? Like they’re, they’re, they are experts in their field. But because they don’t know the things that they don’t know, it’s going to hurt them as more competitors like Jay Z with his billion dollar marketing machine, enter the space. Now, there are people like Kanye quake, who torian who runs counter quake. I love this kid. When I when he first heard about Jay Z, his first thing is like, my competition is Jay Z now, like, I’m like, I’m in business competing against Jay Z, like, That’s fucking dope. And like, it lifts his bar higher, it makes him like, look at what they’re doing that he can do better, or emulate or whatever. And like, it will make him stronger in the long run, to compete with this guy, because this guy is employing all these practices that he doesn’t know anything about. While he knows all of these things that those guys know nothing about and don’t even care about, right? So it’s like, if you apply the best practices with a better product, you should have a fucking that should be a cheat code, right? So like the industry and again, a lot of these people, especially those who’ve, like lost time or loved ones to this space. It sucks. When people who have no skin in the game before just money to kind of come in and take over, seem like they’re gonna come in and take over. And especially and like this is actually a thing I tell like trappers right now all the time and like, please forgive me Feds, I’m not encouraging anyone to traffic over state lines or anything like that. But I, if you were in the game right now and you’re operating in the traditional market, I wouldn’t go legal. Yeah, I would wait, like, people are spending so much money just trying to stay in business. Like, fuck that. I’m gonna wait till they figure all their shit out. And like, again, I have no skin in the game. I’m not selling weed currently, you know, whatever. But like, if you’ve been operating under the radar, like, all you’re doing is giving money to the government to not help you right now. You know what I mean? Like they don’t they don’t even have their shit together?

Shayda Torabi 35:46
No, you’re you’re saying things that I’ve observed. Obviously, not being from California or doing business in California, but using California as kind of a poster child and I talk to a lot of businesses and brands in California just through this podcast too. And everybody kind of shares the same sentiment, it’s like, for better or worse, it’s going mainstream. Obviously, too. I think High Times has played a huge role in that it’s you know, gone from counterculture, this behind the scenes kind of, you know, thing you used to sneak to do is now like you acknowledge corporations are getting involved Jay Z’s slapping his name on it, it’s been cool that you can market and brand and sell but obviously, the the industry to play in it hasn’t quite matured yet. And so we’re kind of stuck dealing with some of the way that the laws have placed things in a very compromising position for people in the industry who, like you acknowledge, you know, you’ve been in it for a while you’re a grower, you truly care about cultivating the plant, but maybe you don’t have the finances to go actually invest in doing the marketing rollout that some of these bigger corporations can do. And then it’s like, where does it sit in the you know, narrative of the more mainstream it goes down? When people are finding out about it, the more hopefully decriminalized and accessible the plant becomes.

Jon Cappetta 37:03
It’s not even solely controllable by those brands, though, like some of these guys, that could be turning a profit all of a sudden, and they decide, oh, we’re gonna change the child packaging restrictions.

Shayda Torabi 37:12
It’s the regulations. It’s the the taxes, it’s the licensing, I mean, California I hear it’s obviously really difficult not to get a license.

Jon Cappetta 37:21
It’s probably not intentionally this, but it’s them stifling the little guy in favor of the big guy who can afford it. I do believe that a lot of the people have kind of been shut out of the industry. The last couple years, we’ll be back once things kind of level set. I also believe that like federal legislation, or legalization isn’t going to come until the states have shit more figured out. There’s just too many questions and too much open. Like, here’s a perfect example. Although no smoking laws and like no smoking, indoors laws, none of those say no smoking cigarettes, they just say no smoking. So how are we gonna have smoking sections? Like or how are we going to have, you know, like, smoking lounges, or anything like that, like, then you add into the fact that like, not only is people getting intoxicated, but they’re combusting things. So are we only going to allow vaporizing like, that sounds fucking stupid. There’s like, there’s just so many like, again, when these people especially like the BCC, like, they didn’t realize how many things they were gonna come up against, because of the way things were written. And because of like, the, the not easy answers took there are a lot of these questions. So I like to tell people, we’re still behind the starting line. Like this is like the, the starting line, the starting gun will be the federal legalization, whatever happens. When that happens, we will see people talk about like the billion dollar investments from Altria and things like that, like, it’s going to be $200 billion, that day, it’s going to be a windfall of cash, it’s going to be like that, if we don’t hold on, and if we don’t like to the point I was saying earlier about like the Oh, geez, like, kind of locking arms. If we don’t do things like that, and we don’t band together, we are going to get swept out. So it’s one of those things where a again, I tell people like, and not that I would ever cite who I’m talking to any of these people are but like the trappers that I’m friends with, like, I bury your fucking money. Like, don’t let anyone know you got it. Wait, just sit on and keep doing you. Whatever your fucking thing is. Obviously, be careful. Make sure no one’s would ever been like, right, don’t get caught Exactly. But like, but here’s the thing. The next five years of enforcement of these types of things, is not sending people to jail. It’s tax evasion. It’s them coming to you and being like, Hey, you owe us a fuck ton of money, bro. How you gonna pay for it? You got checked debit cash, you know what I mean? Like that. That’s the kind of thing that these guys need to really be worried about. That said, I think this I would say the same thing to the crypto buying community. You know what I mean? I would say the same thing to a lot of these guys that are playing around with NF T’s. I think a lot of this stuff. That seems like the Wild West right now really is. But when they figure this shit out, they’re gonna be retroactive with it. They’re gonna be like, oh, okay, like you’ve been doing this since legalization happened? Well, we think you sold 300 pounds a month even if you only sold three

Shayda Torabi 40:08
and you better fucking pay or they’re gonna come after you and if you want to stay in business you got to do it.

Jon Cappetta 40:14
Exactly if you want to stay in business like you just oh my god, this is just Yeah, it’s true you to shut you down and you owe us this money.

Shayda Torabi 40:21
Let me ask you this. Do you see California getting better in the cannabis laws and the regulations? I mean, cuz it’s pretty bad. And so as a getting better, I do

Jon Cappetta 40:32
think California is leading the way. I mean, listen, I there are certain states like Oklahoma, for example, like I really love how Oklahoma is legalizing, like their medical laws say that anywhere you can smoke a cigarette. If you’re a medical patient, you could smoke a joint

Unknown Speaker 40:45
like that as a progressive.

Jon Cappetta 40:48
Yeah, that’s real or not real books to inching towards real freedom. You know what I mean? I don’t expect that to happen most places. And I think that like, Listen, a lot of the reason why things are still held up is like the same reason why, like, they don’t they don’t have a way to tell if you’re high while you’re driving. Right. So like, that’s gonna be something when they figure it out. And like, we’ve already seen a ton of disasters with that, right, like what they did in Colorado. And they tried to say like, oh, have you like, I think it was like point two micrograms or point 02 micrograms, something like that in your system. But if you’re a regular consumer, you might have one microgram in your system at a resting rate, you know what I mean, when you’re totally sober. So getting there is going to be difficult, but I think that’s probably where we’re gonna, like, that’s the next frontier of criminal issues, you know what I mean? But in terms of like, become like, like better businesses, like listen, like all of these guys, all the guys that are growing scale weed or whatever, like they’re learning that they need to get better products, I think it’s the natural learning curve. And like California, because again, we’ve been, you know, inside baseball on this shit for so long, there’s a lot more for us to get specific about like, but then there’s also things that like, we’re not even like talking about on the state level, like terpene, like, listing, that, like states, like Nevada are already doing. So, again, I would like to see a standard created where you know, somebody and like, some agency, I should say, sets the this is what we believe are the safest terms, or like safest things for cannabis legalization. This is what we believe everyone should test for this is what we believe everyone should list on their packaging, whatever. And like create some sort of national standard for that. Like, I think that’s, you know, kind of what’s necessary to make the industry level up because like, if you tell people, hey, you have to get more expensive tests, like they’re not going to, you know what I mean, but like, also, like, as a business owner, like, I understand that, you know, what I mean, I understand that, like, you don’t want to take on extra expenses, because, you know, just because you know what I mean. But there’s also like, again, like people that like really put a ton of effort into their branding and their packaging, and like whatever. Like, there’s something that comes with that, as opposed to just opening up a random jar that just has some bullshit label on it. At the end of the day, the flour inside is the most important. And if you don’t have amazing flour, then like, it doesn’t matter how great your branding is. But I think no matter what state of the industry, you’re in, even the highest guys, like there’s room to grow significantly. And I don’t mean that just in terms of like, like actually making more plants or products or skews or anything like that, but like actually understanding their brand persona, understanding who their target consumers are, and really speaking for those people, as opposed to just, you know, hoping, hey, people are gonna buy this shit. What makes your shit special, because if it’s just the same genetics and the same, whatever, like, respectfully, you’re not moving the needle, you know what I mean? You’re just participating. And that’s great. I think there’s room for everyone I want everyone to eat. You know what I mean? I’m not like I have. I think that again, not mad at Walmart, not mad at Mad Men, they will exist, there are plenty of people out there who will never care as much about what they’re consuming as I do. That said, I know there’s a fuck ton of people out there. And I’m sorry, I’m cursing so much. But I know there’s a way I know there’s a ton of people out there like me, who care about these things, you know, like who care about the quality of the flower who want to see the best and who wants to like, see the brands of this space act and grow like real brands. And I mean that on both sides. I mean, like I believe that they should have the opportunities to advertise and to reach new consumers that everyone else does like drop shipping is now the easiest fucking thing in the world. The fact that cat that like cannabis brands can’t access a lot of those advertising programs and just set up like drop shipping campaigns is like, doesn’t make sense.

Shayda Torabi 44:52
Even just the ease of getting online and we were kind of mentioning you know that before we started recording, but my background is in technology. GE and e commerce and platforms and knowing your background and technology to I’m sure you just witnessed and can agree it’s so crazy these systems Hey, I have friends who are like, Oh, you need to be online. So use PayPal just be on Shopify. Just go set up your website Squarespace. I’m laughing like you, you don’t understand the complexities of actually selling this plant on the internet.

Jon Cappetta 45:22
I also come from the School of like, we had to be shady about this stuff. Yeah, I mean, like, if we were ever like even Silk Road days, you know what I mean? Like, if you were selling the shit, like you had to like, you want to drop breadcrumbs. You don’t want to be like, here’s my fucking weed. You know what I mean? Our consumer used to go into alleys to buy their fucking products. And now they can go into like candy stores and buy gummy bears and fucking and vape pens and shit to like, hide. So you could smoke weed on an airplane. Like, that’s fucking awesome. But like, we also all remember where we came from. And like, even the kids like, even like the kids that are just coming of age, right? Like, we doesn’t have that same coolness anymore.

Unknown Speaker 46:04
Yeah, this knowledge about it.

Jon Cappetta 46:06
But because of all that, like, so when I came to High Times, like, Facebook wasn’t letting us advertise our cannabis cups, right? So I was like, Well, fuck it. What if we just take the weed leaves out and change it from cannabis to counterculture? And try that. And we did. And they fucking took our money. Because here’s the thing, they want the money, they want to they want you to advertise the platform, they’re worried about protecting the kids and shit like that. So if you work with the platform, and obviously not with the platform, but like

Shayda Torabi 46:34
they’ll see as a roadblock, you look at how you can navigate it better given.

Jon Cappetta 46:40
Exactly how can you Okay, so like everything that High Times does on Instagram, for example, is basically violation of terms and service, we’re not selling shit, but like any cannabis post, but like, they don’t care when we post bud porn, because they know we’re not selling weed, but they start to get cut off. That is when they think there’s money on the table that you’re not cutting them in on. So if you say things like deal, or buying now are on sale, the algorithm can pick that up, it doesn’t need a human to go and whatever. If you get if you pass the algorithm, you’re most likely because there’s so many posts that are out there. You’re most likely not going to see a human who’s going to be like, Oh, wait, they’re fucking selling weed here. You know what I mean? So like, that’s what we tell our clients all the time, like leave with story. Right? Like, like again, like so for your business like your feet. Your female Own your sister your family on business, right? Your sister, my sisters. Okay, so yes, like, Okay, perfect. So that’s that right there. Like, that’s your story. Like, how did your you and your sisters like end up here? Right? Like That alone is an advertising campaign. And you want people to like, want to know more about you and your sisters are more about whatever, like, you don’t even need to tell them that you’re selling this shit. You just tell them like, All right, we’re, we’re some girls that are fucking that are making some should happen with him. Right? And like, why we never let them be like, Oh, these girls look dope. I want to see what they’re into and find like, drop some breadcrumbs and let them follow. That’s good advertising no matter what. You’re totally

Shayda Torabi 48:00
right. Like stories like that telling.

Jon Cappetta 48:03
Exactly. But that’s like, again, when I say the things that they don’t know, that comes back to pinkwashing. Right? Like, there’s so many lessons that other major industries have learned that this industry just hadn’t had to, there’s always been a commodity that kind of sold itself, right? Especially if it was good. Now that we’re in a time where like, especially the stuff that’s really good now needs to have best in class marketing and set itself apart. Like, again, I know it makes people mad, like Jay Z’s in the industry, but like, have you seen his pack? Right? Shit is beautiful. Maybe you can take a page out of that book. I’m not saying pay anywhere near as much as he does. But like maybe there’s something maybe his reimagining of the container is something that you can utilize, you know what I mean? Like, take lessons from other industries that are better at thing like look at like PNG. png is the like, what is PNG doing to sell their shit? And how can we emulate that? You know what I mean? Those guys sell more fucking toothbrushes than God’s has clowns, right? Okay, how do we how do we emulate the toothbrush business? Because they seem to be doing pretty well.

Shayda Torabi 49:02
from your mouth to God’s ears. It’s the fucking truth. I seriously, I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s like basic marketing, kind of one on one. But for whatever reason, this industry has such a hard time getting over the where I can’t play in this space. So I’m paralyzed. What do I do. And there’s definitely people too, who are taking advantage of I mean, especially watching like these new markets emerge, you have people who Oh my god, they’re selling consumers. It’s obviously unregulated, but they’re taking advantage of the regulation. And as a true marketer, that’s where my stomach aches. I’m like, you’re literally selling people. snake oil. I look at these grocery stores that I’ve opened up to sell even CBD oil. It’s like, there’s actually no active cannabinoids in the product. But because you’re a big brand, you have a label, you made it into a grocery store, you’ve con somebody, now a consumer could be duped.

Jon Cappetta 49:53
So basically what people are doing is because because if you take the THC content and make it all Delta eight or delta You can either get a heavy or a body effect from taking CBD. So people are now trying to exploit the loophole I’m putting straight D nine or D eight distillate into their products and trying to sell the shit online. I can’t imagine that shits going to be around for more than like six to maybe 12 more months before like somebody figures out this loophole but like I also can’t really be mad at the guys for like trying to exploit the loophole because like you know fake if you make it but like what I can be mad at is all of the guys were using like CBD and these things as marketing terms, and not actually putting quality medicine in there.

Unknown Speaker 50:37
Yes, 100%

Jon Cappetta 50:38
Consumer Reports even did a thing on this where they like pulled by 10 brands and like oh seven out of 10 didn’t even have any enemy cannabinoids are really big

Shayda Torabi 50:46
names in the CBD industry though that’s the scary thing I’m observing on the hemp and CBD side is you can kind of get away with anything. And I think especially with these emerging cannabinoids, like you highlighted with Delta eight, in particular, I’m seeing a lot of people enter the market and do like a flash sale, make a bunch of products sell it quickly. You know, maybe it is maybe it isn’t actually what the product is supposed to be. And then whether they had a good or a bad experience. It’s leaving them with, you know, that experience. They’re the consumer,

Jon Cappetta 51:19
I’m going to be honest, I don’t envy you being in the CVD business because there’s so much snake oil in the space. But like there are tons of bad actors who are just like literally skinning new products every day. They’re the same company they know they don’t work they sell them as this one day then they make a new fucking brand The next day, and like they just keep getting the one time pop and that’s enough to keep them fucking running. So

Shayda Torabi 51:39
well. That’s where I see branding being obviously a key having that storytelling opportunity being able to differentiate yourself. Also, I don’t envy us either. And I would not get into retail cannabis sales necessarily. I love branding branding is my passion. I think that’s what’s come through especially building our brand. But yeah, when we got in the industry I mean further a little bit about our story I cannabis consumer for the last 15 years of my life love high THC wasn’t a car accident six years ago hit by a vehicle as a pedestrian fractured my pelvis in two places and had a broken sacrum and thank the Lord My mother is very open minded to my cannabis consumption. Six years ago, there was no CBD market. There was nobody selling there was nobody educating and especially being a heavy, you know, pot consumer. I didn’t know what the fucking endocannabinoid system was or you know, CBD versus THC. So my mom tells me Hey, do you know what CBD is? I’m thinking I googled your fucking crazy dude. Like, yeah, I smoke enough I’m getting it everyday, probably not realizing, especially in a black market situation, you’re not really going to have access to products in higher CBD percentages or ratios even and so for us, it really was a I love this plant. I got exposed to it from a personal you know, kind of trauma injury perspective, son opportunity to kind of tell a story in a scenario where nobody was talking about it in Central Texas and we leaned into it It wasn’t my I’m gonna make a CBD brand. It was I love cannabis. And people are asking me questions. Oh, now I can start to come forward and talk about this thing I love. And then I ended up getting laid off on my full time job that basically gave me more comfortability to say, Well, what do I have to lose to talk about cannabis publicly? Because I’m sure you know, you can relate and understand. And I have a lot of customers who share the sensor on people. I know the industry. The point from which you wanted to obviously be passionate and advocate for the plant publicly, but you have limitations. You didn’t know how much you could lean into it. Now I just pulled the ripcord I’m like let’s talk about it all day, every day.

Jon Cappetta 53:46
So part of the reason why I was comfortable coming to High Times is because I’ve always been the weed guy like even back in the days at Red Bull. Like I went to a stoner school like everyone, like when I was in high school, like it was just like that was I’ve always really liked. I mean, when I was like nine years old, I was watching Cheech and Chong movies. So like, I like I’ve just always like loved this culture. And like, like how high like all that shit. So by the time that I was like, I was going to go and like honestly, like, this isn’t the first cannabis project that came up, but was the first one that I accepted. Because I was like, for a while I was like, oh, how am I going to tell my mom that I’m actually making money in cannabis or like making money from cannabis. So like, that was like a Whoo, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t think I could do this one. I don’t know. I don’t know if I could do that one. Not because like, again, like my mom doesn’t fucking support me or anything like that. But like, you know, what was it like, I still don’t have any tattoos because she begged me not to when I was younger. I mean, it was one of those things that like I was like, for a long time. Like, I was always out of the cannabis classes. And I didn’t realize till later but like I remember like, the first time I was at a concert when I was like, maybe 12 or 11 years old, and like remembering or like seeing someone smoking and like remembering that smell and being like, Oh, that’s what my uncle’s smell garage nos like, you know I mean, and that was like, back in the day when I was like real, like peppery like spicy weed. You know what I mean? Like a fuck, I wish I can get some of that. I learned young, because I’ve always been this guy that, like, executives always kind of like weed, you know what I mean? Like, they might not be super open about it, but they love to, like, behind closed doors be like, yo, give me something, you know what I mean? So like, from the time, like when I was like, literally, like in college and like with Red Bull, like, and I don’t want to blow up anyone’s spot, but like, let’s just say higher ups regularly were like, yo, like, like, score from, you know what I mean? So I kind of realized that, like, I can play this role and be like, I was called it more like the culture kid. But like, it was like, it’s the weed guy, right? Like, I was like, I was the one who always whenever what people want to get lit whenever they want to know about like new music, new art, whatever, here or there Connect. Yeah, but so like, so that was but it was always comfortable, right? Because then I had like carte blanche to like go do and explore all this other cool shit. A lot of times on people’s other people’s dime. Like, there were plenty of jobs. Like, people were really actually paying me to go and explore and understand other people’s things so that I can digest it for them. And like, honestly, that’s actually how I got like, my Instagram account got so big was because like, people were trying to figure out how to like become an influencer. So they gave me six months to figure out how, like what tactics worked. I shouldn’t have done it with my own page, because now I don’t even like to fuck a post on the account anymore. But you know, you live and you learn

Shayda Torabi 56:25
your storytelling. You know, I think that’s the beautiful thing is everybody has, you know, their own personality and their own way that they see the world and so trying to come forward. And I think that’s where I’ve just had a lifelong passion of content creation. It’s like, how do you communicate what might be a really complex or foreign idea to this end person, whether it’s your mom, your buddy, a boss,

Jon Cappetta 56:49
it’s funny that you say that because that’s like, literally what most of my life has been in terms of like strategy stuff, like, I’ve always been good at mirroring it to something that’s more digestible, that they’re much more comfortable making a decision on and then like, like leveling that up. For me, like from doing shows and stuff like that, when I was young to like, where I’m at now, like, that’s most of that what that has been is like is translation, right? Whether it’s like helping brands communicate what they’re doing to people and like, again, like a lot of writing is also making shit. Like, you know how they say like the New York Times like right to like an eighth grade reading level, like you got to make you got to take complex situations and and make them digestible for people make it easier for them to understand. Because if they’re going to listen to someone be like lecture them, they’re just going to tune out,

Shayda Torabi 57:37
especially in cannabis, where you now have such a diverse customer base, for better or worse, because of the way that it’s rolling out. You do Now have you know, the influential millennial who wants to drop money on the latest collab to the, you know, 55 plus person who’s on XYZ medication wants to try to look for plant based alternatives. It’s like you have to help these people who are coming into this conversation. I mean, especially I think, from a CBD perspective, again, kind of leaning on my own experience as a marijuana consumer. There was not a lot of education, you would go into the you know, retail shops and you weed is legal, you want to buy an eighth, you want to buy a candy, you know, what do you want to do? Now and CBD and even today in my retail shop, I’m having to explain to a woman. Well, what’s the difference between CBG and CBN? And well, why do you have a CBN? With CBD? What is the ratio mean? And you now are introducing such a more diverse set of conversations on top of just do you want to get high? Do you want to go to sleep? It’s like I think, you know, you you are required? Now, to some extent, I know you’ve acknowledged to and I would agree, not everybody’s playing at that level, there are certainly people who want to just sell something because it’s legal and someone wants to buy it. But I think the maturity of the industry is coming of what’s

Jon Cappetta 59:03
also because you work in other industries, you understand, like concepts like niche marketing, right? Where like you can subsist and succeed off of just reaching one type of person. That’s kind of what I mean about like what I was saying earlier about, like these guys creating brand personas, and like, you know, understanding like who their customer is, because most of these guys think they’re just selling to everybody. And like, that’s good. And like, yes, you can do that. I don’t want to like a Kellogg sells to everybody. But you’re not Kellogg’s yet. And like, you have to understand who you’re serving at a fundamental level. And like, once you get them, then you could figure out how you’re going to have more people into that pot. But if you don’t know who that base consumer is, what ends up happening is a lot of times you don’t serve anyone very well, you just kind of like, exist until you don’t,

Unknown Speaker 59:54

Jon Cappetta 59:55
There’s so much to learn. There’s so much space to grow. And I think because everyone is looking at like, oh, we’re trying to take the whole field. Some people are like, Hey, we’re trying to take the whole field, whereas other people are looking at like, a very small subsection of the stands thinking that they’re about like, a much bigger portion of the field than they actually are, and are trying to cater to them. But I think that like if people really started thinking, like, okay, we want to cater to this person, and then figure out how x, y and z are also going to fit into that. But as long as this person knows and loves us, we’re doing what we’re supposed to do. Until you piecemeal things like that, you can’t begin to see the big picture. Because brand affinity is not something that you can just buy in a series of ads, people are wasting bazillions of dollars right now, with customer acquisition, that like, is essentially useless, that one sale is probably very adamantly anti spending money with you for the you know, at least for the foreseeable future.

Shayda Torabi 1:01:01
Okay, this is a super juicy episode. And so I want to keep this short because I wanted the meat of the listening time to be focused on my guests and what john was sharing. But with that said, as always, I just really hope these episodes are beneficial for y’all. I hope that you are critically listening and thinking through how to apply this information back to your own business. My hope and intention is, you know, the rising tide lifts all boats. And this industry, like john identified is, you know, whether you think it’s just beginning or we’re in the infant stages, or we haven’t quite gotten to the beginning just quite yet. You know, we’re at the beginning, and whatever term and so let’s learn, let’s understand, and then let’s make decisions on how we want to move forward. And part of that is getting on the same page. And so I hope this gave you some food for thought. And with that, I’m out I will see you guys on the next episode reminder, I release new episodes every Monday. You can also check out all the past episodes I’ve done. I’ve have an incredible roster of previous guests. So thanks for tuning in to another episode of the podcast. And with that I’m out. Bye y’all. Love this

Announcer 1:02:15
episode of To be blunt. Be sure to visit the Shayda slash to be blonde for more ways to connect new episodes come out on Mondays. And for more behind the scenes follow along on Instagram at the Shayda Torabi

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